Sunday, February 26, 2012

Monks in ADOM II

Next up in the line of tasks is the implementation of monks. I already have finished all the basic stuff (SV improvement, unarmed combat damage, etc.) and now am working on the professional abilities for monks. Oh, and there have been some name changes... male monks now are called "warrior monks" while female monks now are called "warrior nuns" (at least that's the plan - on Facebook an exciting discussion still is running).

And here we go with my proposal for special abilities (which I will probably start implementing tomorrow... so come soon with comments!):
  • circular kick (with a -2 to hit) on level 1 if monk is the primary profession, circular kick with -8 to hit if multi-classing,
  • shatter rock with kicks at level 3,
  • immunity to disease at level 6,
  • feign death at level 10,
  • immunity to poison at level 15,
  • instant kill chance against monsters of size tiny to medium at level 21,
  • unarmed attacks become magical (which causes them to bypass PV and then only can be resisted by MR - one of the new stats) at level 28,
  • immunity to paralysis and sleep at level 35,
  • immunity to attacks with fire, ice, electricity and water at level 50,
  • instant kill probability against monsters of any size at level 75 and
  • immunity to aging at level 100 (monks thus being the only profession with a chance for immortality in their natural class progression).
What do you think?


  1. Lots of immunities there, I would disagree with immunities to poison and elemental attacks, since I can't quite see the reasoning. Maybe immunity to pain, as monks are trained to ignore all distractions? Meaning that all damage is reduced by x points. And also could monks be able to detect enemies even when blinded, since they are "aware" of them at all times?

    I noticed that you also added booze recently and maybe that could be made a monk power: the drunken fist, which is a really unpredictable fighting style. The more drunk the user gets, the more powerful the drunken fist (bonus to DV and critical hits).

    And my last suggestion: the ability to use the opponent's strength against them in melee. A portion of their attacks cause damage to themselves.

    1. Immunity to pain then just would be a PV bonus, correct?

    2. Oh yeah, didn't think that far, :) I guess it should be more interesting. I think there was a talent like that in ADOM. Maybe it could just be another way of saying immune to paralyzation and stunning?

  2. Looks like you're going for something DnD-ish here. That's fine enough, however you could consider going with something more like actual warrior monk myths, or perhaps with one of the more modern monk variants (Pathfinder as well as 4e monks come to mind).

    I haven't read all blog posts, but I assume there's a pattern to the special ability levels?

    As for the abilities, they seem moderately bad-ass. I'd consider adding some sort of a mobility benefit, or is that affected by stat gains through level up? (speed score or somesuch)

  3. How is armor and so on handled? Does monk unarmed damage, speed and armor scale with monk level?

    I have no idea what MR does yet and whether monsters are going to have much of it, so there's no way to tell if the level 28 ability is "meh" or "extreme".

    I was a bit sad to hear about multiclassing penalties, so I can't tell yet if I'd multiclass into monk. Level 3 sounds like a great toy to get for three levels, but not at the price of a penalty. I imagine that's going to be the norm for most multiclassing options: "Great! But not if I get an xp penalty for it". Moreover, multiclassing is going to be delayed in all of the cases until you're done with your first class for good, to delay the penalty for as long as possible, and if ADOM is anything to go by, only very few games will get as far as players multiclassing according to plan, leaving a few brave souls who multiclassed early and are punished for it.

    As an RPG gamer, I get erections when I hear the word "XP bonus". "XP penalty" elicits the opposite reaction. Generally, you want players to get RPG gamer erections (and the female equivalent, though I'm speaking figuratively anyway). A disincentive for mindless multiclassing - okay, if it starts at something like four and gets progressively harsher, or is calculated by total level.

    Something like:

    Total level 1-6: One class at no penalty
    Total level 7-15: Two classes at no penalty
    Total level 16-28: Three classes at no penalty

    and so on.

    Senor Vorpal Kickass'o is still screwed (doesn't make a challenge game in that spirit impossible, just more challenging, and that's never been much of an obstacle!), but at least I can optimize AROUND the penalties and have vastly more than enough possibilities to play with, rather than a blunt "multiclass and you get a penalty" - "There goes my erection".

  4. Ideas/Suggestions:
    * Paralyzing Touch ability (increasing % chance, possibly related to Death Touch/insta kill)
    * Combo Move: % chance for an extra free strike every time a strike lands successfully
    * Flow Like Water: When fighting defensively, lower the defense value of opponent on a failed attack. Maybe even a Judo Throw ability, if standing/lying prone is implemented. Basically, some sorta Mr. Miyagi/aikido thing, where a Monk can be the tactical opposite of the Berserker.
    * Fancy Footwork: ability to switch places with opponent; at a higher level, this becomes Leap - teleport to any unoccupied space within 3 tiles.
    * Disarm: % chance to disarm opponent. Weapon falls to ground.
    * sneakiness/invisibility is also a Kung-Fu monkish sorta thing.

  5. The level 100 skill seems underwhelming. It's cool in theory, but in practice, how many characters are going to die of old age anyway? I'm presuming not many. This is also doubly pointless if yo think in terms of something like a grey elf monk, then immunity to aging is not going to be something to get excited about. If you're planning other things to work with this, then I can imagine this being cool, but on it's own, it seems weak for a level 100 skill.

    Otherwise, I like these skills. Having a lot of immunities opens up some interesting gameplay choices, because it means that you don't need equipment which grants those immunities, meaning you have a chance to use some equipment that you might otherwise not consider. I also like that the iconic monk abilities from ADOM are the first two skills.

  6. rho does have a point, wicked cool as it is, eternal youth in itself isn't much of a gameplay benefit. So spice it up a bit. The monk isn't immune to death magic yet; add that, and perhaps "All damage to the monk is halved"?

  7. How about an ability that lets you switch positions even with hostile monsters? When I think "monk", I think "tactical battle movement". Would fit nicely into the whole "unarmed combat" business, since in Judo or Aikido you often use the power or momentum of your enemy to your advantage. The avantage to quickly go into or out of monster mobs should be pretty obvious :)

  8. Silfir, could you post a link to the post describing the XP penalties you mention? I think I missed it or forgot about it.

    I personally find the level 100 ability so incredibly cool that who cares if it's useful in practice or not :)

  9. I both agree and disagree with rho about immunities being a good thing. It leaves choices for equipment open, but should the Monk really be the class to play around with equipment? That's more in style with some Weaponsmith/%Smith% guy, especially if he gets to reforge stuff for bonuses as class features.
    On the other hand - what's the fun in having class abilities consisting mainly of equipped item effects? Basically class breakpoints are at levels 3, 10 and 75. You don't want to advance further in class without reaching next breakpoint. I totally agree that immunity to age at lvl 100 is not that much of a boon, since I, for example, never had a character die of old age except for magic ageing.
    P.S: Where're the monks' movement speed buffs? maybe lowering energy cost on movement and unarmed attacks would be great for this class. If there's none I'll just take first 3 levels and don't need any more of this, really. As I said, no fun in playing a dude with built-in immunity rings for features.

  10. I like the idea of the leap from the previous suggestion. However it could be modified into something like "flying fist" and along with the movement include damage. The damage having a penalty for distance. Essentially the same mechanic for movement as arrows in Adom except instead of shooting, the marker location is you will be moving and damage could be inversely proportional to the distance. Cap the distance at say 3 or 5 squares. Damages everything in the line for (standard damage)/(squares moved). If trying to move onto an occupied square include a recoil penalty and end up at original square - something along the lines of being rebuffed.

    Higher lvls could decrease the penalty, increase the distance available, and/or remove the recoil penalty.

    I was thinking of also including energy penalty so that it is balanced and not abusable against slow monsters. However I think this goes against monk lore and I think the damage penalty would be sufficient seeing as how slow monsters usually have high PV.

    Monks are my favorite - they're the only class I've beat Adom with.

    1. Oh, I thought of a way to avoid abuse against moving faster across dungeon levels and/or attacking enemies without a chance to retaliate. require that the initial position and ending position be next to a monster. At least the initial position requirement to avoid speedily moving across dungeons.

      Also, if this is to be implemented I think that it should replace the magic immunities (as nice as they sound to me as an adom player).