Today I pondered slaughtering a potential holy cow (but maybe not - I'm curious for the responses):
I'm sure people who know their key presses in reflex-like motions will hate me but IMHO it makes a lot of sense to have more intuitive bindings and I never have been afraid to look at holy cows while sharpening a knife.
The next logical step would be to sort races, professions and star signs alphabetically on the corresponding selection screens instead of using the current chaotic mess.
But I have a gut feeling that I will create some irritations with long time fans. On the other hand I strongly believe that all these changes would be very beneficial for new players.
So let me hear your thoughts!
P.S.: Yes, I also shortened the texts in the menus as the many filling words ("View the...", "Read the...", ...) probably just unnecessarily clutter the screen.
P.P.S.: Yes, there is a new game mode progression. The idea here is the following:
- "Tutorial game" is the introduction you should take to learn the basic mechanisms of the game.
- "Standard game" is a game mode that is suited at the "average" (and more casual) player out there. Hunger effects will be lessened (probably just cumulative negative attribute modifiers instead of killing effects, slightly better survivability). It should serve to show all the tricks and traps of the game but with less immediate killing power. No talents.
- "Roguelike game" is the standard way of playing ADOM (but without the customization screen - basically spontaneous selection at each step).
- "Customized game" is the complex customization screen you have today.
- The other modes are unchanged.
The next release also will add more customization options:
- "Hunger" no longer will be just on or off but get a third "debilitating" setting. And "on" probably will be renamed to "deadly".
- "Talents" will be added with the settings "off", "automatic selection" and "custom selection".
- "Balance" will be added with the settings "Roguelike" (die rolls like today) and "Pampered" (making die rolls in certain situations slightly more favourable for the player with the goal of making gameplay even more exciting - I found this article very fascinating: https://www.polygon.com/2017/9/8/16263050/game-design-magic-tricks)
The above-mentioned standard game will use "Talents: off" and "Balance: pampered".
Thomas as a veteran adom player, I will tell you you will make me very sad and irate if you change the binds. However, I can see the need to make things better new players. That being said, why not an option to swap between classic layout and new layout?ReplyDelete
Because we already have a few of these options and they really cause trouble while maintaining the game. We no longer want to check all the modes and combinations and ADOM really needs to get rid of some of these complexities as they slow down innovation.Delete
The above is a classical example: It seems rather trivial to add a switch but then we have to correctly map conflicting keybindings, etc.
Well, to that end, I'm not sure it matters too much then. Old players will adapt and new players will be none the wiser.Delete
Hey if you are looking for more customization options, I had an RFE I posted the day before you released for prereleasers.ReplyDelete
I was thinking it would be cool if we could customized a couple of the newer features (ie boss monsters and statues) to either have them be more or less frequent (or not there at all)
Heres the link:
Also since we are looking into making the game easier, you could also look into making the game harder too :pDelete
Maybe with the balance die rolls, you can have it go less in your favor (sort of like you were cursed)
Idk what the "tough" monsters option does, but maybe you could also have an option to increase/decrease monster health % as well
Just throwing out some brainstorming ideas :)
One thing that's good about the more complex character creation screen is that you can easily set defaults for the basic creation options (star sign, sex, race, class, attributes). IMO it's much more convenient than the old spontaneous selection where everything has to be done in sequence.ReplyDelete
Yeah, I love it too. But I nowadays think that it shouldn't always be the first screen you see when generating a character as it can be quite intimidating ;-)Delete
This comment has been removed by the author.Delete
This comment has been removed by the author.Delete
I think if you remove the stuff that isn't absolutely necessary for standard games (custom options, highscore %, previous game settings, geek code, game mode save/load), then the screen becomes a lot less intimidating.Delete
(Some serious commenting fails on my part, sorry for all the deleted comments)
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
One thing I notice is the discrepancy in that you are calling the easy mode "Standard game", while at the same time referring to Roguelike game as "the standard way of playing ADOM". Calling the easier mode standard may lead some players to not look any further, any thereby they won't get to experience ADOM fully. Especially since "roguelike game" may or may not mean something to every prospective player. Neither is there a clear progression in the naming and/or positioning of the items.ReplyDelete
I think perhaps even calling the current "Standard game" just "Normal game" or something along these lines could be better. Additionally the gamemodes could be positioned in a way that mirrors the progression in difficulty/the intended experience of the player. Like having the 3 (possibly 4) basic game modes directly below each other, separated from the rest: tutorial, normal, roguelike, (customized). Essentially it should suggest to the new player that "you may or may not want to jump in at the deep end, but you probably should eventually try out 'roguelike' to get the full experience".
Additionally displaying some sort description about the game modes (tooltip? text beside the game modes? having these 4 modes below each other and in a separate group may help in this regard too) could help too, though I'm not sure how the new interface is going to work exactly.
I agree with Grond in how convenient the customized character creation screen is, and I really don't think it's all that intimidating, there aren't all that many options. I also think being new player-friendly does not mean the player can't be expected to do some minor amount of reading while creating the character, it really is not all that much effort compared to actually learning to play. Anyway it should be common sense for everyone that if you don't know what the option does, then leave it on default (at first).
Maybe "casual" game instead of "standard" game? "normal" might be better thought because there is no conflict in letters - but is "normal" really better than "standard"? Both seem pretty equal to me.Delete
Regarding ordering the modes: Remember the space limits of the ASCII screen. I could order the four modes beneath each other - but then challenge mode, exploration mode, etc. would have to be shown in the column to the right of those four due to space constraints. And I'm not sure if that's better as reading usually works from left to right for english-speaking countries (and most other western-oriented nations).Delete
Good UI/UX is surprisingly complex even for a simple ASCII interface :-)Delete
A lot of rpg games give you the ability to customize your character, so I think most people will be used to the idea of customization.Delete
Yes, "Casual" does sound better, I think.Delete
Regarding the spacing: could it be possible then to have the 4 modes in the 2x2 arrangement, but leave a small gap afterwards? That would imply that these 4 belong together, and in addition to renaming the game mode now called "Standard" to "Casual", that should provide enough visual cues at first glance about the meaning of these modes.
Tutorial, Easy, Classic, Customized Classic?Delete
I like the idea of giving initial/permanent Luck etc in the easier difficulties that Ben Mathiesen suggested. Gives the player a visual clue.
@Jipsu I like that naming scheme (I tried not to change the name of Roguelike for some reason, but I realize that was unnecessary, Classic would do just fine, perhaps with an explanation after making the choice about what it entails). Perhaps leave the last one at Customized though, like this: Tutorial, Easy, Classic, Customized.Delete
Well, my thoughts:Delete
- Easy still won't be that easy.
- Easy, Classic, Customized takes away any chance to standardize on starting letters (Easy conflicts with Exploration, Classic & Customized with themselves).
I could use numbers for the modes but I just had decided to use letters for selection and shift+letter for help for that point). So while I see a certain logic it still doesn't fly for me.
Difficulty settings? I thought the various races and classes practically were the equivalent of various difficulties? I recall reading something to that effect in the manual.Delete
Still, if you're going with it, what about [B]eginner game for the proposed easy/standard mode?
"casual" isn't right. no one who plays mario kart or bejeweled is going to stumble upon ADOM, and that's what casual currently means.ReplyDelete
I've played some of just about everything? And no matter how you optimize the UI, the core of ADOM is a desert island game. As in, if you only have one game to play forever, and need it to be complex but rewarding and there's no way to sum it all up?
I get the impulse to standardize it to current game design expectations, but i don't think you can get there. Make an entirely new game based just on the initial village area.
I read the article, and I think one of the charms of roguelikes is that they don't fudge the die rolls, and that the game is challenging from the very beginning.ReplyDelete
ADOM already has a mechanism for fudging with the lucky and fate smiles intrinsics. What if instead of drastically changing the underlying mechanics, you just gave PCs in casual mode permanent luck? Another, minor tweak could be that the first killing damage reduces the PC to 1 HP instead (I think Fate Smiles does this sometimes).
The less deadly hunger mechanic sounds reasonable too.
You want to leave ADoM now and forever?! Y/n! Y! Ax0ax0ax0!Are you trying make this, but ancient wierd powerful force blocks this action...Chaos in your head whispers strange words...Now you're weak...But maybe one day chaos let up and you will be able to challenge yourself and win...if not forever then at least for a while...a strange feeling spreads through your body...now you play in ADoM...ReplyDelete
I agree with "Casual" being a better wording for the simpler mode.ReplyDelete
As for bindings, are you talking about the default keybindings during gameplay? Because I don't see how this is really an issue as long as you preserve the keymap customization.
My main issue when I started playing was that I had very little idea about where I needed to go for things. Part of this is just the goal of the game -- the mystery and excitment in discovery -- but there should at least be less vague hints towards what you need to do to actually win, IMO.
I've been playing for more than 10 years and happy to see these changes! Heads up!ReplyDelete
In regard to alphabetizing starsigns, I think that would make chargen just a very very tiny bit quicker and easier. However, I would prefer them to be listed chronologically, assuming Adom's lore goes that deep. If I were creating a character that required picking a realworld horoscope, I'd not list them alphabetically, but in the order they line up with the calendar.ReplyDelete