I'm right now working hard on calculating the correct amount of money to request. I'm going for an all-or-nothing Indiegogo campaign (either it gets funded or not - Indiegogo has another option I personally don't like as IMHO it does not make much sense to get less than the required amount of funding and then fail to deliver good work). I had wrestled with starting the campaign on Kickstarter in some way (by standard they only allow US citizens to start campaigns but there seem to be a few ways around that, e.g. incorporating in the US - in the end I decided that the complications do not seem to be worth the perceived advantage of Kickstarter versus Indiegogo - either there is enough of an ADOM community left to make the effort worthwhile or there isn't... both answers are ok even if I'd prefer the first one - but the platform shouldn't make much of a difference from everything I read; it's about the community).
There are quite a few things to consider in order to get that amount to fund right:
- Taxes. Above and beyond everything else. I'm still trying to determine the right taxation, the answer from a professional accountant seems to cost several hundred euros, right now I'm investigating with the tax administration itself. Anything between 0 and something like 42% so far seems a possibility. I'm really curious for that answer. Anyone have specific experiences with that in Germany (not just hear-say)?
- The crowdfunding platform costs. Indiegogo takes 4% for all-or-nothing campaigns.
- Credit card processing fees. Another 3% gone. Plus maybe a one-time fee of $25 but we can neglect that.
- Part of the funded amount usually seems to get lost due to unsuccessful payments... roughly another 5% account for that from what I can glean from blog posts (e.g. this one).
- Rewards cost money. Currently I mostly prefer virtual rewards but there will be a few physical one (e.g. a reversed postcard quest where you can get an autographed limited edition postcard, a print out of the source code for high profile donors). Again see Star Command for how they blew $10.000 of more than $34.000 just for the prizes... probably not figuring in the lost time. Or this advice here. Basically I figure that the extra donation for a reward must be at least twice its cost - otherwise the effort is just not worth it as far as I am concerned (from the funding point of view). Obviously the question is "how many donations do you lose if there not many (or no) physical rewards at all?". No answer to that yet. So costs for rewards are an extra and don't further the project directly. Thus I need a good cost estimate for all physical rewards.
- The right motivation to back a project with varying amounts of money is important. As ADOM Classic currently is free this raises a number of issues: Should future releases be pay ware and as a donor you get the game at a reduced discount (violates ADOMs current philosophy)? Should donors receive a deluxe version of the game with more features (what would the community say to that)? Should donors get early access (is that worth money)? Should potential tablet versions be paid (handling that e.g. with Apple is not trivial as they do not look kindly upon games that collect money first and then are free for some people; don't know how this is with Google and Android)?
There are many additional things to consider.
- Pricing and duration for the campaign: rewards in the $25 to $75 usually seem to be most popular (although Kickstarter absolutely recommends having rewards below $20), campaigns of slightly over 30 days usually seem to be more than enough (currently I tend towards 60 days knowing from the old days that many roguelike fans where not to big on available money thus allowing interested people to save before donating; this article seems to indicate that 30 days are more than enough - hmmmm...).
- Number of tiers and pledge amounts: According to varying accounts pledge levels below $25 do not seem to be used much, surprisingly levels like $50 and $100 get chosen more than expected (and even higher ones like $250) - so it definitely seems to be worth considering exciting higher pledge tiers.
- We still need a great and compelling video - some help already was offered since I have zero competence in making videos and I hope to get some nice art and music up, too.
No graphics version no donation.ReplyDelete
Then no donation. No problem. Graphics won't improve anything compared to their costs. But thanks for the comment.ReplyDelete
I would be happy to donate even if it was for nothing more than a good bugfix release.ReplyDelete
I think adding graphics (as in actually drawing them) would be a waste of development time. Adding an option allowing other people to add their own tiles to the game would be more interesting, but that probably fits better in ADOM II. The original ADOM is a console application so I guess it would be difficult to adapt.ReplyDelete
Anyway, tiles are mostly to attract noobs and noobs will play ADOM II. For ADOM Classic, I think the most important thing is bugfixes. I'd also really like to see an official server (similar to jaakkos's server), maybe a hardcore mode disallowing or penalizing scumming... and well, the source, but that's already been discussed and not gonna happen at the moment.
I think bug fix and new feature releases are rewards in themselves. Early access for backers makes sense to me. It may discourage some free riders. I wouldn't focus on them though. Focus on providing value and getting the funding you need. If ADOM fans want it enough to fully fund it, they'll get it, otherwise not. Let the market decide.ReplyDelete
Look at the Shadowrun Kickstarter campaign for reward ideas. For example, it would be cool to have some in-game advantage for backers--don't know about feasibility.
Seth Godin recently blogged observations about his experience with crowd funding--worth a read.
Giving out a free android version is not an issue, hosting it on the marketplace for some people might. You can however just make an .apk available to them through some other means. IndieGala does this with their mobile games. I would personally love an android version.ReplyDelete
I don't mind nothing physical (although a postcard would be nice)... so long as there were other little incentives like:ReplyDelete
* Name in the game - like the bug infested temple, being able to get to some Easter Egg location/item where I can see my (and other donators) names and go "yup, I'm now infamous" is a good reward which requires little effort on your part.
* Custom items/artifacts/NPCs/pool results/etc - its more work, but its no doubt a higher reward. Being able to add yourself (as an NPC) or new type of base weapon / new artifact etc that *you* thought up (within reason, no +2000 swords or anything silly) would be awesome!
Limited availability to prevent it being too much work for you of cause, perhaps broken down by request (you can add way more NPCs than artifacts after all).
I'm sure there are many more little things like this that could be woven in, instead of figuring out and acquiring *physical* 'loot'.
What do you plan to do to the game with the donated money?ReplyDelete
See the more recent posts.Delete
@Kenny: Bug fixes, balance issue patches, minor new features and maybe major new features if enough money is connected. iPad version. Android version. Challenge games. Official highscore server. New races and professions. Finishing some open ends.ReplyDelete
The end goal would either be the permanently revive ADOM development or open source... but that would probably require donations in the Shadowrun range... thus highly unlikely.
Lots of options and I see the upcoming ADOM Classic fundraising campaign as a kind of omen about what should happen to ADOM Classic.
Those options are just some examples BTW.Delete
"The end goal would either be the permanently revive ADOM development or open source... but that would probably require donations in the Shadowrun range..."Delete
Um... are you serious? 1.8 MILLION dollars?
I would GUESS he means the original Shadowrun target of 400K, but I could be mistaken.Delete
Even if that's so, how on earth can you possibly claim with a straight face that FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS is "required" to open-source a freeware ASCII game? That's completely insaneDelete
Well, again I don't know, but just general thinking---I'd reckon the frame of mind to adopt for a "what if" scenario would be one of frontloading years to come. 400K sounds like an enormous figure, but in terms of years at a time of doing it is not some king's ransom. The other aspect to consider is, again for instance, exactly what all could come to pass to further enhance an "ASCII game" with any sum of money beyond the stereotypical "nothing"?Delete
People can feel all sorts of ways about the lot of this, but what can't be disputed is that this is largely virgin territory being hashed out here in the general history of Roguelikes which have only been alive since the 80's and not even what I'd consider to be a healthy level of "lively" since prior to the last few years. When you reckon that this is all a bit of proper history in the making, it helps to un-explode the old noggin.
@fsdgdsfg: No, I don't mean the original value. There is exactly one valid value for the source code of ADOM: The one I personally attribute to it. If no one is going to pay for that that's ok. But I think there are two errors in this line of reasons:Delete
1. Folks arguing about the total most of the time (not pointing at you) seem to be arguing from a point of jealousy. What does the total amount matter to you if all you need is a pledge starting at $10?
2. I regard ADOM as a piece of art (as I have said several times). Opinions may differ on that but take the value of the source code like the value of art. If you just look at material costs and work time many paintings probably at best could be valued between a couple of dozen and a couple of thousand dollars (depending on size and time spent creating them). Obviously this is not the way it works as there are many paintings selling for tens, hundreds or millions of dollars.
Now I'm not trying to compare myself to Picasso or Rembrandt here (no misinterpretations here, please) but in the end I am the sole person that can attribute an appropriate price to my work. If no one wants to pay that that's my problem ;-) But as I said: No one would be required to individually pay that price - we are talking crowd funding here.
@Kornel Kisielewic: As explained in one of the more recent blog posts permanently working on ADOM would require me to give up a well-paid job with responsibility for many other people, edging out a job niche in a very tiny market while paying mortgages and being able to live. I'd only to that if I were sure that I could make it without harming friends, family and colleagues (and even then I would take some way to keep with my colleagues - probably by paying them to allow me to work on ADOM).So the situation is somewhat strange but that's the only reality I have to offer.Delete
I think you're focussing way too much on how you can make a buck on this. Just decide what you want to do here (make a sequel to ADOM? Work on ADOM? Make unwieldy iPad / Android versions that no-one can play?)ReplyDelete
It's all really confusing and frustrating to read. If you want a successful fundraiser, offer ADOM II at a fixed, competitive rate with a sane target.
Don't think you'd need to give anything extra for donators, maybe a note in the credits for people who donate over a certain amount.ReplyDelete
You are working on ADOM II however you want to crowd source funding for continuing ADOM Classic development.
Is ADOM Classic not a finished product? I would have thought it would make more sense to crowd source ADOM II? I'm sorry if you have answered this, as your blog doesn't seem to mention it much. Perhaps it is buried in Facebook?
I for one would be far more likely to contribute to ADOM II, using ADOM as a leverage for your ability to succeed with ADOM II.
Explanations now are up in http://www.ancientdomainsofmystery.com/2012/06/crowd-funding-adom-resurrection-what.htmlDelete
Go for Kickstarter instead, it is much more popular and you're much more likely to get more donators.ReplyDelete
Impossible for Germans. Only US citizens can do Kickstarter (and there seem to be some tricks like incorporating).Delete
BTW, studies seem to indicate that the platform has almost zero influence on the number of donors. Which surprised me... but it surprised many others, too. The one and only question seems to be if you manage to address a community of people interested in your offering. Since there is an ADOM community I'm optimistic enough about Indiegogo.Delete
I'll have to ponder this one for a while so I can figure out exactly what to think about this.ReplyDelete
I think the outrage of some of these posts is ridiculous and likely doesn't represent the reaction of the larger audience. But, obviously, whenever this campaign begins it might be necessary to itemize where and what the amount of money of the all-or-nothing goal is for. Meaning even rehashing the whole conversation you went through right before you began re-developing JADE. It looks like many people haven't been following the amazing progress that's been made since then, and aren't aware of the issues you had to think about before making it. For example you having a family and business responsibilities etc.ReplyDelete
That being said, it might make more sense to reframe this whole idea as using a finished ADOM as the reward for funding ADOM II.
Something like providing a version of ADOM with any or all of: " Bug fixes, balance issue patches, minor new features and maybe major new features if enough money is connected. iPad version. Android version. Challenge games. Official highscore server. New races and professions. Finishing some open ends. "
as a reward for those who donate to funding ADOM II.
Wow, look at that username. Using AIM to post has a funny result.Delete