tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post7502674501307081915..comments2023-10-22T12:22:54.333+02:00Comments on The Official Blog for ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery): Regarding Mist ElvesThe Creatorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12906302439863860854noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-19755357547356650712017-05-26T13:46:39.696+02:002017-05-26T13:46:39.696+02:00Mist Elf Necromancers should really start with som...Mist Elf Necromancers should really start with some lumps of clay. Smiths come set to smith. Farmers come set to farmer. Why don't Mist Elf Necromancers come set to necromancer?Varionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05936612223200898508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-38511094803027326872012-12-12T19:24:05.658+01:002012-12-12T19:24:05.658+01:00Sadly for the monsters in ADOM no information abou...Sadly for the monsters in ADOM no information about the composition of their equipment is available. For ADOM II this is totally different though ;-) But I digress...The Creatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906302439863860854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-55846670454239165842012-12-10T16:09:07.670+01:002012-12-10T16:09:07.670+01:00*edited slightly for clarity*
Hear Hear!
I reall...*edited slightly for clarity*<br /><br />Hear Hear!<br /><br />I really like these ideas, especially the magic, as it gives a whole new way to play the game.<br /><br />This seems like as good a place as any to tack this on:<br /><br />In terms of tweaking the basic gameplay of ADOM, do they need to start with mithril gear? They already have auto-leveling PV, why not make their misty, incorporeal bodies incapable of supporting ANY metal at all? Maybe you could wear clothes, robes, bone, and leather (someone suggested needing gloves to handle weapons) but otherwise go without. Monks do it, and it seems like Mist elves already have a few head starts on them.<br /><br />Also, do they have to be elves? It sounds almost like they created themselves. Unless they then created the grey/high/dark eleves in their image, or one of the other gods created the other elves in THIER image, it just seems wierd. (full disclosure I know next to nothing about the D&D lore that a lot of ADOM seems to be based on) We don't call Orcs and Trolls and Goblins different types of the same creature because they're dumb violent and short lived, why should every fragile, magic using, long-lived creature have to be an elf?Seldon T. Scrantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07637030622413650027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-41968705533899094652012-12-10T16:07:07.832+01:002012-12-10T16:07:07.832+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Seldon T. Scrantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07637030622413650027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-37637481009170210272012-12-10T15:56:48.552+01:002012-12-10T15:56:48.552+01:00I only got through a few of these posts, but as fo...I only got through a few of these posts, but as for the class restrictions, maybe have them have *no* class? The racial bonuses alone are nutty, and what good would a mist elf necromancer be? And a mist elf fighter would be insane. And what and to whom would a mist elf merchant sell three months after the dawn of time itself?<br /><br />That might be one way to nerf them, and it fits with their aloofness. They're so above everything that they have no class (or all commoners, to use ADOM 2 lingo) just a bunch of crazy racial powers. Maybe they get special mist elf only level bonuses, or maybe they forgo class powers altogether. It would at least solve the problem of the late-game-magic-using juggernaught, and give magic user players the equivalent of a troll fighter, awesome in the early game, but just TRY to get it though to the end.Seldon T. Scrantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07637030622413650027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-28182871917664375052012-12-10T15:49:52.978+01:002012-12-10T15:49:52.978+01:00Makes sense, it took them the lifetime of the worl...Makes sense, it took them the lifetime of the world to reach lvl.1. Why would you expect them to get to level 2 after five or six goblins?Seldon T. Scrantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07637030622413650027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-18826842379015039622012-12-10T15:46:41.622+01:002012-12-10T15:46:41.622+01:00I was going to say, if no one else already had tha...I was going to say, if no one else already had that golems seem fitting for the "necromancy". Since they were there for creation, the whole "breathing life into the clay" aspect of most creation myts should be something they're familiar with. And a golem is a good approximation. Not quite alive (they're not quite gods) but far superior to necromancy.<br /><br /> Obviously not iron or steel golems, but enough corpses could become a flesh golem. Enough stone weapons a stone golem. You could implement wood golems (to a living tree what a flesh golem is to a human), crystal weapons/shields armor could become a crystal golem. Implement diamonds as a gem, and enough of those could be a diamond golem (obviously, good luck finding enough). As for clay golems, who knows? You're the creator after all.<br /> Seldon T. Scrantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07637030622413650027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-76567038385174591072012-12-09T18:40:29.979+01:002012-12-09T18:40:29.979+01:00Since mist elves have iron allergy, that must suff...Since mist elves have iron allergy, that must suffer more from attacks by iron weapons, otherwise it doesn't make sense.<br />Personally I dislike the idea of xp penalty =(<br /><br />Having no god to worship is an excelent point. Since the mist elves live from the Creation, they are already similar to gods themselves.<br />It is logical that mist elves do not care about gods at all. Maybe because the gods of the other races are younger than mist elves (but much more powerful). The gods may even hate mist elves, but cannot do anything directly to them.<br /><br />Also I feel that mist elves should have surspising food preferences=)stgatilovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13601723305842431953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-15287057437501167312012-12-09T17:59:03.703+01:002012-12-09T17:59:03.703+01:00(cont.)
And what about artifacts? What if mist elv...(cont.)<br />And what about artifacts? What if mist elves could dissolve artifacts? After all, they seems sort of demi-god-y. Dissolving artifacts would earn them, instead of spells, something special and dependent on the artifact; oh, and of course, it would really really really annoy some gods. Example: the crown of science can be dissolved to get fire immunity; to counterbalance the benefit, it gives also a good deal of corruption and make you doomed. Dissolving the TotRR grants a random immunity, give you the gill corruption, and it also makes much more likely encounters with powerful demons and undead (it "advertises" you as an enemy of undead and demons). The si ... I don't know ... but should be something very funny and not at all useful, maybe it could morph into a random crap item (example: "as the si dissolves in a cloud of mist, you hear a distant, booming laugther, while a scroll of amnesia appear in its place"). An even better option: instead of a fixed/multiple effect, each artifact could give a random effect out of a set, different for each artifact: this way, you should consider whether to take the risk of wasting an artifact and get something lousy (or even negative, such as a corruption; not to mention the annoyed gods, which you have in any case), or keep it as it is and use it just as everyone else does. This randomnes fits well with the absorbe/liberate theme: artifacts have many properties, so when you liberate their magic you don't know what could go back to Ancardia and what could end up infused in your body.<br /><br />So, to summarize, the way I see mist elves is that they are detached, indifferent strangers to the rest of the world in a deep, fundamental sense. What other races have managed to manufacture in the way of magic appears, to these elves, laughable, childish, not worthy of their notice. Their long life, their fairy-like nature, their magical misty body, the myths that surround their origin, all this points to a deep connection with the Ancardian world and its magic, and thus to an ability to gather what spells they need from the magic dispersed throughout the landscape, the rocks and the beings of Ancardia. <br />A last remark. Even if this idea ends up completely in the trash, I think that its underlying principle is valid and worth considering: that is, the principle that mist elves are really different and they should not look like as just another good-for-wizards elf race, in the same sense that mindcrafters are really different and not just another caster class. White necromancy and iron allergy are interesting, but I think this race needs even more to set it apart from high and gray elves.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-60946247415279715722012-12-09T17:57:10.756+01:002012-12-09T17:57:10.756+01:00Here is an idea to avoid making mist elves a sort ...Here is an idea to avoid making mist elves a sort of more grayer than gray elves, and instead make them very strange and peculiar. They should not be able to learn spells from books. Even more radical, they cannot use wands (not in the usual sense, at least; more about this below). The reason is that they are so lofty that they regard books and wands just as bizarre, senseless toys made by shabby, senseless races. Instead, they can learn (better, they absorb) spells from objects. For example: from gems (maybe they should start with gemology), so if a mist elf puts a ruby in the tool slot and 'u'se it, he gets a message "as the ruby disappears in fine mist, arcane knowledge of fire magic sparks within yourself", and now, ta-dah!, he can cast Fire Bolt. Or from corpses, if strange properties of monsters (such as special breathing) are to be understood as based on magic; this seems to be the case for dragons, so, using (not eating!) the corpse of a black dragon gives Acid Bolt, an ancient black dragon gives Acid Ball; a moloch corpse could give Strength of Atlas; gorgon, Petrification; emperor liches (do they leave corpses?), Death Ray; fairy dragon and unicorn, Teleport (blink dog granting teleport seems too much); stone giant lord, Mystic Shovel. And other possibilities, always along this dual theme: on one hand, mist elves don't use the magical objects that have been produced from lower beings, because that's just rubbish to them; on the other hand, they are able to muster the magic that permeates Ancardia and its beasts, its rocks, its plants, its weather (speaking of which, the weather in the wilderness may influence them in special ways: strong winds could make them faster --- easy to stroll along with the wind if you are a misty bloke; some spells could be more effective, in the wilderness, depending on whether there is sun, clouds, rain). This dual theme could also complement well the white necromancy: if they are able to create and breathe their magic into their creations, they should also be able to destroy and absorb magic.<br />I know this is going to sound as a radical proposal, but they should even not benefit (gasp!) from rings or scrolls; all these are just stupid toys to them, remember? (At least, the non-artifact ones). But they could 'u'se spellbooks, rings, wands, scrolls to get powerpoints or hitpoints (the more of them, the more rare and powerful the object): they can sense that some fool trapped some magical power inside these silly things, so they can liberate it and make it return to the Ancardian mana flow (or whatever), and, as a reward, as the object dissolves in their hands, they receive some PP and/or HP. Very rare items, such as spellbook of Wish or AoLS, could fully restore PP and HP, or, if they are already full, increase them permanently of a few points.<br />Back to the source of spells: other ideas depend (if you like the dual theme) on what is magic and what is just natural processes or crafted objects. For example, are herbs magic? Spenseweed and pepper petal seems quite prodigious, so they could 'u'se them and get the Healing spell or Cure wounds.<br />As for potions, I don't know. Sure, they are made by someone, but, since they are a mix of ingredients that ultimately must be found somewhere in the Ancardian nature, they are more likely to be usable by mist elves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-51253927982997306702012-12-06T21:10:06.691+01:002012-12-06T21:10:06.691+01:00here's an idea, building on what someone said ...here's an idea, building on what someone said about starting with a corruption, perhaps with these legendary creatures who long ago became bored with life they needed more than a little chaos to spur them into action, for what else could spur such an immortal into action but what they would fear the most? change!justin b.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09790601439436564421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-45111618289417086812012-12-05T16:36:42.344+01:002012-12-05T16:36:42.344+01:00i like Thomas' ideas. but i think if mist elf ...i like Thomas' ideas. but i think if mist elf is allergic to iron then iron weapons should damage him more, which may offset 50% dmg reduction a little. also my idea of a negative feature to balance awesomness is some kind of carrying restrictions (they are misty after all). like getting burdened/strained faster because things tend to fall through misty handsjammhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12563174379194253744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-30702536585469139132012-12-05T14:50:50.712+01:002012-12-05T14:50:50.712+01:00Love the flavor text, Thomas.
I was dubious as to...Love the flavor text, Thomas.<br /><br />I was dubious as to the value of adding "yet another elf" to the lineup, but their backstory as legendary primordials is excellent. They come across as alien and frightening, like the Sidhe or extraterrestrials. And their gameplay will definitely be different.<br /><br />Probably the Grey Elf description could be toned down as Silfir suggests, and the High/Grey elves could be made a little more different. <br /><br />My only quibble is this: they suffer from contact with ordinary metal, yet take half damage from melee attacks and ordinary damage from missile attacks? To me it sounds like it should be the other way around. A melee attack moves slower, and spends more time inside the body, so even if their misty nature protects them the effects of ordinary metal present inside the body should offset that. A missile attack on the other hand would have a chance of just passing through rapidly and doing little damage.<br /><br />It would make even more sense if the damage taken was linked to the metal of the weapon used to attack them (if you have that information). A lot of monsters have default weapons, e.g. caveman+club, orcs+orcish knife or spear... So for example, you could say that physical attacks (melee or missile) made with wooden, higher metal, or natural weapons do half damage, while those made with iron/steel weapons do full damage. This might be too complicated to implement, but it sounds more consistent to me. Ben Mathiesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18194218556408735905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-77256809346052479072012-12-05T14:40:21.102+01:002012-12-05T14:40:21.102+01:00I know! Call them Mistborn!
/SandersonI know! Call them Mistborn!<br /><br />/SandersonAlucardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08308525151025072211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-19775997548153054382012-12-05T12:25:19.507+01:002012-12-05T12:25:19.507+01:00Instead of having gods they prey to, their lore co...Instead of having gods they prey to, their lore could emphasise fundamental individualism: worshipping themselves as gods. In fact, you could borrow a lot of their philosophical and spiritual outlook from LeVeyan (non-theistic) Satanism - it really fits with them being aloof, self-important and disinterested with the rest of existence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_SatanismRichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10357248345434540739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-62879232727821818602012-12-05T01:22:46.632+01:002012-12-05T01:22:46.632+01:00That was precisely my point. Note that grey elves...That was precisely my point. Note that grey elves already have a slower xp curve than humans. Is that because they're dumber? No, they just operate on a different time frame. They savour knowledge like a fine wine, instead of gulping it down rapidly like these fast-living humans. Mist elves would be on a whole new level. Change to such an ancient race does not come easy.<br /><br />I do kinda agree that calling them a new height of elfdom isn't exactly right with how grey elves are already described. Perhaps the grey elf description just needs adjusting. Consider:<br /><br />High elves: Regular elfy types. Weak but still good warriors. Integrate with the other races happily, though still consider themselves superior.<br />Grey elves: More magically orientated and physically frail. Aloof out of a feeling of vast superiority, but happy to lord over the lesser races.<br />Mist elves: Wholly different type of elf, no real interest in the affairs of mortal races. Physically completely different from other races.<br /><br />I do think though that high elves need something to distinguish themselves more. Perhaps higher dexterity and a little more strength, to make them more combat orientated. Maybe give them 10% faster learning in the sword and bow weapon skills? They need a more butch image.Darren Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00792164422274663420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-29820620221759377532012-12-04T19:17:45.300+01:002012-12-04T19:17:45.300+01:00I think that slow learning is actually somewhat th...I think that slow learning is actually somewhat thematically appropriate. You think after a 10000 year life, their abilities are suddenly going to improve dramatically over the course of a month or two? For people, anyway, it is certainly more difficult to learn new things as you age. Or you could spin it that they focus their energies elsewhere. For example, they might be pure hedonists who are only interested in their own pleasure, and don't really have any particular interest in learning about the ways or skills of "mere mortals".<br /><br />Anyway, trolls have strength and toughness to get them through the early periods; mist elves have damage resistance and white necromancy. This is also a sliding scale anyway. Trolls take 3x (3.5x?) as much xp as everyone else to level. If that's too excessive for Mist Elves, perhaps 2x or 2.5x would be more appropriate.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17618911343817647877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-11445966284930598942012-12-04T18:32:21.607+01:002012-12-04T18:32:21.607+01:00Maybe it was the comparisons to Gray Elves that le...Maybe it was the comparisons to Gray Elves that led me to the "three degrees of elfdom" image. It doesn't help that the manual also describes Gray Elves in terms of comparison to High Elves. I've probably misunderstood the intent as a result. It might help if, similar to how Dark Elves only refer to their "surface-dwelling cousins", the Mist Elf was described without referring to just Gray Elves to give us a sense of just how far removed from mundane elves they are.<br /><br />It doesn't help that the manual describes Gray Elves both as "the most noble of all elven races" and as possessing "magical powers of which other races only dream". When I heard "mist elf", I thought we would see one of those other elven races, with distinguishing features of their own, much like the dark elf. The mist elf from above is much, much more than another elven race. It's probably my fault for being a slave to my own expectations.Silfirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15556090754583144358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-13914455015154419102012-12-04T18:07:27.031+01:002012-12-04T18:07:27.031+01:00As a side note, do we need more elves? Not that I ...As a side note, do we need more elves? Not that I have anything against them per se, but it would be great to be able to play, for example, a quickling, kobold, goblin, or minotaur. : >A Kermode Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02910928130634765902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-12614864517774763022012-12-04T17:36:40.777+01:002012-12-04T17:36:40.777+01:00Without the xp penalty, they have a punishing earl...Without the xp penalty, they have a punishing early game and a kickass mid- and late game. With one, they have a nigh-impossible early game and take ages to get to their mid- or late game prowess. That's great balance?<br /><br />XP penalties in general are a fairly misguided balancing tool. Levels add class powers and skill increases and talents; all of the build-up elements that players love in their RPGs are tied to them. With trolls, it's justifiable because they're big, strong and really stupid. Their strength and toughness guarantees them a playable game, and their slow learning is less jarring because it fits with their background. With mist elves, it would be crystal clear that they're only slow learners for balance reasons, with no justification provided by the lore.<br /><br />White necromancy, iron allergy, partially ethereal composition - all of these are perfectly interesting, but none of these require Mist Elves to have Concentration or Alertness. They also don't require Mist Elves to be just overall more awesome at spellcasting than Gray Elves are, or live longer than they do.<br /><br />Of course, the text has said nothing about their Learning score. But if you give them a low Learning score and/or xp penalties to offset the enormous willpower and mana, the distinguishing factor of the Mist Elves becomes that their heads are ALSO filled with mist, and they are now the Dumb Elves, rather than graced with the wisdom and acuity of a nigh-immortal life. Seems weird to have a race that can concentrate, but not actually achieve anything while they're doing it.<br /><br /><br /><br />I do feel I owe it to Thomas, when he's clearly bouncing ideas off of his fanbase as he's done many times before (for instance the posts on ADOM II classes, which were all followed by revised versions after the comments), to speak out when I think one of his ideas doesn't work for me. If I came across as whining, I am quite sorry.Silfirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15556090754583144358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-35391986225183870932012-12-04T17:33:25.258+01:002012-12-04T17:33:25.258+01:00As I said elsewhere... forget the class restrictio...As I said elsewhere... forget the class restriction idea.<br /><br />Regarding more elf than gray elf... maybe it's my prose. I really see them differently. As the kind of "inhuman human" (or unelven elf) so to speak, because they are so much older than even gray elves that their whole nature and point of view regarding all things elven is highly alien and unelven.<br /><br />While thy share some physique and history, they are definitely the cold, aloof, alien and uncaring grandfathers of all things elven... even the almost immortal beauty created by gray elven artists feel fleeting and like forgone effort to them. <br /><br />Damn, I need a wordsmith to express my ideas :-)The Creatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906302439863860854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-69607475559093090752012-12-04T17:28:29.114+01:002012-12-04T17:28:29.114+01:00Personally I had thought about making them about a...Personally I had thought about making them about as difficult to advance as trolls actually, yes. The idea being that they take a much slower outlook on life and need a lot more stimulation to learn (besides obvious game balance issues).The Creatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906302439863860854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-61898489345191637182012-12-04T17:24:43.729+01:002012-12-04T17:24:43.729+01:00:-):-)The Creatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906302439863860854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-14822679678894719532012-12-04T17:24:28.947+01:002012-12-04T17:24:28.947+01:00Ok, ok, enough voices against limitations ;-) I...Ok, ok, enough voices against limitations ;-) I'll just drop the thought.The Creatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906302439863860854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3586507643754859034.post-10762355788592042252012-12-04T17:23:52.318+01:002012-12-04T17:23:52.318+01:00I really like the idea of making prayers a lot mor...I really like the idea of making prayers a lot more problematic.The Creatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906302439863860854noreply@blogger.com